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and this is weapons

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for people that don't know so awesome we

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keep saying that uh just it's bearish

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repeat Advanced Aerospace weapon systems

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application program that was the the

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largest best funded

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government Dia UFO program in history

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that is publicly known

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and then as that transitioned it turned

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into atip advanced Aerospace threat

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identification program

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so those are the acronyms that we keep

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talking about but I think it's important

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to to show that there's individuals in

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intelligence agencies that that are

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taking this seriously and building

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infrastructure for better reporting and

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want to be transparent with the American

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public to the degree that is safe with

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you know with problems with foreign

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problems that's so encouraging I love

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that there are a multitude of agencies

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now that are developing

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Beyond an interest but a process to help

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bring this information to where it needs

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to go it will make you and me obsolete

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maybe as journalists but it's great it's

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happening boss app the the DIA program

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lasted 27 months and then you know

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because of its it got into some pretty

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controversial areas and became a hot

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potato within the Pentagon intelligence

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Community Lou Elizondo steps forward and

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was able to keep something going a form

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of the program it's not as big it's not

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as high profile but he kept it going and

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and was upset eventually that it just

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didn't get enough attention it didn't

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get enough resources to to be able to do

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the work they really needed Jay who was

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working with Lou they're good friends a

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lot of mutual respect between the two of

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them moved on to another job he was

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aware as he told us he was aware that

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Lou Alexander was going to leave and the

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reasons why he was going to leave and

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was upset he was not aware that the New

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York Times story was going to come and

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then boom it happens one day so that's a

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funny yeah thing so so Lou I mean really

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that's i i people just don't get this

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but Lou is a champion I mean he took

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something and he kept it going and he

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made it strong and you know I I think

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and I think Jay really appreciates that

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you could tell from the conversations uh

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so so we get to the point where Jay is

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now out of the UFO topic that's not his

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task with his intelligence job so he's

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doing something else and the way he said

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it to us was so cool is uh on December

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17th or you know whatever it was 2017

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when the the New York Times thing

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somebody put a paper bang right on his

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desk and says you know Merry Christmas

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or happy birthday whatever they said

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we'll let him tell that story yes I knew

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Lou was leaving uh so again I at that

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point in the 2017 day into early 18 time

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frame I was in a job that UFOs were not

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my job uh in any form or fashion uh so I

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did not do that job uh you know very

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conscious throughout my career of

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sticking to what I'm paid to do right

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um however again Lou and I are friends

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and and the folks that kind of took it

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over when I left I knew them all uh and

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you know I got a uh face to face is

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called a tamberg insecure uh kind of

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face time with Lou in his office and

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this was about I think three or so days

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before he dropped his letter and he's

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holding his letter you know there's

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something that affected he's like you

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know here's what I'm doing and uh and I

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said you know good luck uh and then you

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know lo and behold he's on stage uh with

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with Hal and and Steve Justice and the

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team there

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um and I'm watching yeah and it's still

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at this point I I had no idea I would be

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back in into this topic at all right

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um I'm watching as an outsider just like

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everybody but I could actually text Lou

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if I wanted right so I had some Insider

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but but I'm watching and and interested

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are you sympathetic to his stated

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reasons for leaving in that he was

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frustrated that I can't get through to

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the Secretary of Defense and tell him

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about this and it needs to be a higher

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priority

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I am you what we needed was was a

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recognize a program of record as we call

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it right we needed something that had

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the

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and

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you know I was building towards that

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later and I'm sure we'll talk about the

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the task force but you know I Had A

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Five-Year Plan of how we're going to get

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all of these things that we needed but

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if you're just a working group you know

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and and trying to do your job and and my

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in my hat you know a Navy at the

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headquarters I had

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a certain amount of of uh wiggle room

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for trying to get things done and

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authorities right but you needed

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something above all that you needed

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something at that SEC def level at that

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odni level that could reach into

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everything and had the authority to get

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the answers it needed and Lou and I knew

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we needed that and and every time we

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would try to knock on a door and say hey

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we need that uh you know here's what we

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know right here's what we've seen a

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little bit of history on OS app and

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other things uh yeah you get the door

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kind of shut in your face because it's

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uh back to that careerism I don't know I

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I just I don't know you know I'm afraid

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of the Washington Post was there any

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involvement I've heard these stories

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from people we know about

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fundamentalists religious people high

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UPS who were concerned about its demons

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or we're messing with forces of biblical

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proportions there's absolutely some

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concern there and I did see it in

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writing one time in my career where

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someone was asking me to push back

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because they're religious concerns uh

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and and you should wave off of this

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topic is literally what they were

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telling me

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um you know you should you shouldn't be

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involved in this

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um

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I know it exists I think what my

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professional opinion is after again

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years now of being involved is

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that seems to have died off I think

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one now you know I'm elevated into that

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senior level and a lot of my colleagues

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that were all at the same you know level

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that had grown up with me throughout the

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process we don't really think that way

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right so I think kind of the Old Guard

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was moving out the new guard was moving

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in and it never once after that early

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Dia stuff you know did it ever ever stop

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uh or get in the way it was just early

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on when when kind of that old guard's

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there and protecting their own you know

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what they believe right December 2017 it

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blows up New York Times story I don't

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know if you knew that was coming but I

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know I you know Lou has been through the

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ringer since then I also know that

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Senator Reid who you know he'd let me

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know it was coming uh he starts getting

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phone calls immediately from former his

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former colleagues in the Senate and

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they're asking hey what's the deal is

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this program real how do I find out

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about it is that when you get sort of

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pulled back in uh and you start doing

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briefings or oh so I was sitting in my

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office at the other uh non you know UFO

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related job and I get an email from my

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old boss uh there was a link to the New

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York Times story and she said Merry

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Christmas

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um because I had no idea that was coming

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at all and it was literally a holy crap

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you know when you're reading that and

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you have some inside baseball knowledge

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and and uh but I didn't have any

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security concerns you know it's like

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yeah if I had security concerns I would

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have addressed it was with the security

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concern I had the yeah you know I can't

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believe we're saying all this in the New

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York Times here because of everything

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that was involved right but I didn't

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know it was coming it took me by

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surprise I had zero intent at that point

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of working the topic again and there's

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just when I'm out they pulled me back in

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exactly what happened exactly what

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happened so uh my old boss that sent me

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the email uh sometime after that sent me

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a position and said I should consider it

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and I did and I applied and I got that

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and that was that promotion

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I was actually stepping back into Office

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of Naval intelligence to do a different

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job but at that point uh

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you know your your Pilots have been

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taken to Congress the Senate armed

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service committee and all these folks

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had the interest in the topic

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and my boss realizing you know she knew

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all along hey I got one guy that's got

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some history in this and and the trust

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to tackle it appropriately and keep it

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professional and do all the things that

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need to be done so she reached out and

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said hey I want you to take this over

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and she really wanted a joint program is

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the word she used but you know joint

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effort built

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to tackle this problem and get out ahead

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of it because of the Alex dietrichs of

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the world right the people that we want

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to take care of and I only say her name

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because she's come out herself and

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um and and with that uh I I took it I

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had the authority we call it um duralos

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direct liaison Authority I had directly

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guys on Authority across the entire

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government she empowered me with her you

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know her her power to to do that to say

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just go for it and I I wouldn't let

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anything stop me unless they you know

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threw me out right so I started going

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through my own education and saying

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here's what I need and and that came

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from the years of looking at this and I

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knew I needed I needed things like the

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FBI and the Coast Guard and others for

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their Title 18 authorities I needed

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folks with the right title 50

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authorities the folks with the right

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title 10 authorities

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um and and to do this right and and to

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get that level of respect and and

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get to those true answers you've got to

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have the right people involved right so

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I went out like building a business and

253
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started knocking on doors and and now

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thanks to my new rank I pretty much got

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doors opened right and and previously

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they would have might might would have

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opened the doors but but now hey let's

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see what this guy has to say uh at that

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point you know we had the the Gimbal and

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other things right that people know

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about but we had more obviously I'm

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going through

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what we know we don't know what we think

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and everywhere I went because again of

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that education of how to present the

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data and how to present the the

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information

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they went holy crap how can we help

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right and I ended up with with somebody

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in each organization that was kind of my

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belly button to say uh hey uh this is

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your guy he'll help you and I just

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started building out that business and

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that framework and getting the things

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that we needed to be successful I would

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call it at that point a partnership not

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a task force because really you know

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task force is a legal thing and in the

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dod circles but we were this uh this

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this partnership with the right people

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across the services uh everybody

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approaching it from from the right

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perspective

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[Music]

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at that point no I I started Loosely

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calling it a task force but that was

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very loose it was really and the way I

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would brief it is partnership you know

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as I kind of show who's helping out uh

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and but at that point I am briefing

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Congress you know from from from that

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that day forward right we're I went in

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and and briefed the uh a couple of the

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Committees on my plan I had a what I

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call a one-pager again I'm you know from

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a marketing perspective of everything on

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one page and here's what I'm gonna do

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and here's how I'm gonna do it uh and

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they loved it uh and they got behind it

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and you saw some language coming out of

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the authorization for that I heard it

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became a hot ticket that you know

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whereas before it was not not nothing

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that ever popped up in Congress and

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suddenly hey let's have a hearing show

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us the videos absolutely yeah and and

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again it's how you present the data

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right and there were plenty there were

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still a few of the the Old Guard kind of

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hanging out that that could prevent me

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from being successful and some of them

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did not want to hear from me right they

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don't want to get the briefing but every

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time I finally got to brief them they

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were supportive every Congressman I ever

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briefed except for one I won't say who

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and it gets back to the belief word

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uh you know everybody understood where I

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was coming from and and the problem said

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and and that you know at the end of the

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day the business I built

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was working and it was and it was what

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we finally needed right

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it sort of reminds you of Michael

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Corleone just when I'm out that I

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thought I was out they pulled me back in

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it's the kind of thing so yeah he again

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he was not a UFO guy yeah he was doing

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his job each of the times he was asked

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to do this he was doing his job and you

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know something else he said that really

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uh impacted me was you know he was a

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really high rank and I don't want to get

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into exactly like how that works but you

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know we'd say an equivalent of let's

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just say really high rank so a lot of

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people could have pressured him because

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of their rank to try to diminish the

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work he was doing but he resisted that

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all along the way and did the right

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thing and I just I thought that was a

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really cool thing to hear from somebody